GamerDad Hot Coffee

[Gamermum]

Hey Andrew, I very much liked the Hot Coffee article today. I thought it really hit the nail on the head. (I would have said earlier in the day but this is the first time I've been able to log on to the forums - is anyone else having problems? )

[Klonoa]

Yeah I've been having problems with the site for the last couple of days!

You know one thing that burns me up about this Hot Coffee topic? When I read about others talking about it on other message boards, I like to chime in and encourage them all to visit GamerDad.com. Well a lot of them get mad and complain that I had no point doing that and all I was doing was 'pimping' the site. (I hate that word 'pimping' by the way). All I was doing was trying to help by letting them know about a good site for parents and stuff.

I'll look for ya in the Dallas paper! --Cary

[Dave Long]

People just hate being told about websites if they know you are a part of it. That's a fact of the Internet. You're just not allowed to talk about something you do that can be found on the net if it's in any way "commercial".

It's stupid. Never be proud of anything you do is the lesson they'd like us all to learn I guess?

--Dave

[occasionalplay]

Looks a good summary of the actual issue again from GamerDad.

I have no interest in this game after seeing the reviews here but the dichotomy between nudity and violence seems to be somewhat peculiarly American. To paraphrase a quote from a different forum:
You want to show that flesh on screen? No way. Oh, you want to show it being blown up? Yeah, no worries.

But as GD said, the kids shouldn't have been playing anyway.

[Mommy!]

Hot Coffee?? As a non-gamer, I'm shocked by what they sneak into the games with their little codes. Sex? I think it's highly inappropriate to include that into a car game, even it is full of violence. I liked your cool demeanor that it was already labeled as an adult game - so what's the big deal? That's true. Unfortunately, like R-rated movies, a lot of parents out there simply don't care what their kids watch/do.

Sheila

[GamerDad]

It's a very big deal, it's just not the big deal uninformed politicians and media are making it out to be to a largely uninformed public. The sex is hard to dig out of the game. It's hidden, it remained hidden for a good 7 months before bored and very creative kids (presumably) began breaking the game apart to find this hidden code. I was trying to make an ironic point that sex (in this case we're actually talking about soft-core simulated sex) is considered WORSE than ultra-anti-social violence is and how that's kind of silly. Rockstar, if they put this code in the game for whatever reason, should be fined or worse for letting this slip through.

This is a bad analogy but the equivalent here could be a DVD of an adult movie like... say... Scarface (something violent and antisocial) and the DVD version came with a hidden Easter Egg that was unadvertised that shows some deleted sex scenes. That's pretty much the analogy here. Oh, except that to access the Easter Egg the kids need to get instructions from the Internet and buy a 3rd party device that lets them hack into their DVD.

It's scary, game companies need to understand that they can't do this kind of stuff, it looks like Rockstar screwed up in a big way, but this isn't a case where Rockstar was found maliciously trying to corrupt youth with secret hidden sex and I'm getting tired of the strange standard Politicians have where crude graphics in a violent game are believed to be somehow worse than clear violence in a movie. GTA: SA would be Rated-R, even with Hot Coffee, if it were a film and nobody would be talking much about it.

[SiW]

I found this commentary excellent, and have been waiting for the forum to come back up to say so. I really, really hope the article went out today as you reproduced it and it wasn't cut, because you really hammer the points home.

It has been pointed out elsewhere that this could really have an impact on the mod scene if companies are forced to account for any possible 3rd-party modification before their game is rated by the ESRB.

One thing I didn't know is how detailed the ESRB review is. I had always assumed it was a short video that they saw and it was up to the developer / publisher to divulge anything not in the video, but according to a developer post elsewhere, they DO sometimes play the games themselves. The ESRB either has to be supplied with cheat codes to show every single possible level and Easter egg, or with a video showing the same. With this information, in puts Rockstar even more at fault.. ..except that of course the content was never meant to be unlocked, unlike an Easter egg.

Man, all they had to do was to REALLY get rid of it before shipping and this never would have happened.

[GamerDad]

The only thing she has is the Q&A portion. I wrote the rest (1st draft mind you) out of a feeling of wretched guilt over not covering this sooner. I've been a lazy GamerDad. It gets to the point where you see a politician railing and you just want to throw up your hands.... The article features more than just me of course. Mainstream parents and possibly our own Colleen contributed as well.

The article will appear in the Dallas Morning News next Wednesday. I'll link or try and reproduce it here if possible.

Thanks for the compliments guys ... and sorry I ignored this topic here. Heck, one of you (Rob? Alan?) even prompted me a few weeks ago with a thread on this board. Keep me targetted guys.

[GamerDad]

It has been pointed out elsewhere that this could really have an impact on the mod scene if companies are forced to account for any possible 3rd-party modification before their game is rated by the ESRB.

I doubt this will happen. Or if it happens, it won't stand. There's FAR too much precedent exonerating companies for what crafty humans do with their products AFTER they're sold. If you modify your engine, you can't sue Ford if it blows up (because of your modification).

The Mod world should be free provided it remains non-profit. Now, there is a fear that game companies will crack down or stop mods on copyright grounds. Or threaten to sue them out of existence. Or the government will make laws that are unconsitutional but they'll survive until struck down and the "anti-mod" and mod makers won't be able to survive the long road to trial....

Also, mods are the PC world. I doubt Hot Coffee would be as big a deal if the code wasn't unlockable in the PS2 (and I presume eventually the Xbox too) version.

But again, I doubt it. This story is already blowing over. Take Two did the right thing by agreeing to the ESRB's "nuclear option" of going AO and the recall. If they put the code in, they deserve the recall and the damage it'll do for them.

Rockstar still claims this was modders/hackers though. Nobody seems to believe them but, if they are right, then the recall is a farce and Rockstar has been treated very unfairly.

[SiW]

Ehh, you shouldn't feel guilty. Your whole point is that ultimately this isn't a big deal for a game that is only for adults in the first place! Although it might have been amusing to put out your own Media Alert to combat the one from the National Institute on Media and the Family. My favorite line in that is:

"We are taking the unusual step of alerting parents to the pornography available through this game to any child or teen who is Internet savvy."

Guess what, folks? If your teen is "Internet savvy", the odds of them looking at more than polygons bumping uglies are quite high indeed. And again, no child or teen is suppos- ARGH! FORGET IT! IT JUST MAKES ME WANT TO SCREAM!

[SteveFulton]

Great Job Bub!!!
You said everything I wanted to say, but much better.
I'm very proud to be associated with you and your site.

The key to this is to watch what your kids are doing. My 7-year old is PAINFULLY aware of game ratings and even scolds me when I'm think of T-Rated game for both of us to play.

[GamerDad]

What do you guys think, should I start monitoring, mocking, and picking fights with Mediawise when they do this? I mean, they're so well financially backed but they're really bad at this.

[SiW]

(and I presume eventually the Xbox too) version.

This is the part that interests me. According to my quick research, an Xbox version showed up about a week after the PC one, but nobody talks about it.

But I did find that the guy(s) behind Hot Coffee have put up this bit of coolness on the download page: http://www.gtagarage.com/mods/show.php?id=28

(Just in case they change it, they removed the download out of support for Rockstar, and instead direct people to Sims 2 patches, to make a point)

[SiW]

What do you guys think, should I start monitoring, mocking, and picking fights with Mediawise when they do this?

It pains me to say it, but no, I don't think it would be wise to do so aggressively. Not until GamerDad becomes the powerhouse force it should be, anyway.

If you go out there guns blazing, it just takes one or two articles on mediafamily.org accusing you of bias/siding with the industry/corrupting young minds, and you're really hurt.

Besides, you have better things to do.

[GamerDad]

Ah yes, good point, I hadn't considered the "smush the upstart" factor.